DUST Search - [Feedback] 1.8 damage mods, 3%-5%-7% would be better

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

The nerf to damage mod (3% basic, 4% enhanced, 5% complex) while necessary, goes too far. Higher tier damage mods are not worth the SP and fitting costs it takes to use them any longer; going from 3% at standard to 5% at complex is hardly a difference. We should not have useless modules that aren't worth the SP or fitting cost; all things must have purpose and viability.
This nerf will lead to a dual-tanking epidemic. Instead of damage mods, armor tankers will switch to using shield extenders. Dual tanking should never become the dominant strategy, it reduces the importance of the unique damage types (this unintentional effect also will further inflate TTK length beyond what CCP intends).
My biggest worry about about the damage mod nerf is the side-effects on AV. It is an indirect nerf to AV. The 1.7 AV is currently ill-equipped to effectively deal with tanks (in fact another tank is more cost-effective and cheaper when you factor how often AV players die), nerfing them even more through damage mods will have awful effects of vehicle/AV balance.

Solutions:

While I agree damage mods have been a bit much, I think only the complex damage mods need a nerf; from 10% to 7%. The severe nerf coming in 1.8 is too much, especially considering there are stacking penalties.

Tip the vehicle/AV scale in favor of AV more.

Thanks for reading.


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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1968	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:42:00 - [1] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The nerf to damage mod (3% basic, 4% enhanced, 5% complex) while necessary, goes too far. Higher tier damage mods are not worth the SP and fitting costs it takes to use them any longer; going from 3% at standard to 5% at complex is hardly a difference. We should not have useless modules that aren't worth the SP or fitting cost; all things must have purpose and viability. This nerf will lead to a dual-tanking epidemic. Instead of damage mods, armor tankers will switch to using shield extenders. Dual tanking should never become the dominant strategy, it reduces the importance of the unique damage types (this unintentional effect also will further inflate TTK length beyond what CCP intends). My biggest worry about about the damage mod nerf is the side-effects on AV. It is an indirect nerf to AV. The 1.7 AV is currently ill-equipped to effectively deal with tanks (in fact another tank is more cost-effective and cheaper when you factor how often AV players die), nerfing them even more through damage mods will have awful effects of vehicle/AV balance. Solutions: While I agree damage mods have been a bit much, I think only the complex damage mods need a nerf; from 10% to 7%. The severe nerf coming in 1.8 is too much, especially considering there are stacking penalties. Tip the vehicle/AV scale in favor of AV more. Thanks for reading. As another poster said I could see 3,4,6. The solution here however isn't actually to change/stop the fix to damage mods. Most of the problems you describe are totally legitimate problems, but they need to be addressed directly not continue to use damage mods as a crunch/band aid. As to mod cost in fittings and ISK, that's a big issue with all of these changes, the entire equipment line is getting nerfed (several parts already having been nerfed at least once previously) and thus far I've seen no word about a reduction to the cost in fittings, SP, or ISK to employ those mods. In all cases, damage mods, equipment, et al substantial reduction in tactical value should at minimum trigger a review of the cost in SP/ ISK, and fittings that is required to use the item in question. Regarding TTK, it needs to go up and I'm not sure I agree about the worry it will go too far. That being said I do agree that no single build method should stand as the only viable option, be that dual tanking, damage mods, or something else. We need more viable competition for high slot mods because even ignoring the general state of both mod types the current binary 'yes/no' choice between damage mods or shield extenders is less than idea... quite a bit less than ideal in fact. 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Ooops, forgot to mention AV specifically. On this I completely agree with you, the scale needs to be tipped a bit more toward AV, not where it was in 1.5 of course but more so than it is now. SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1979	Posted - 2014.03.07 15:12:00 - [2] - Quote Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Min Assault is going to be getting a racial bonus to the effects of damage mods. +25% at level 5, meaning that every percentage higher you push the mods themselves expands the value of that specific medium frame over all other medium frames. At some level it becomes "the" medium frame to run and that's not where we want to be. I can't comment on what that threshold is, no one can clearly yet because the sheer volume of changes in 1.8 dashes the context on the rocks of uncertainty. Which brings me back to my common refrain, CCP, small granulated changes more often are better practice than huge pendulum swings every few months. ~Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1979	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:13:00 - [3] - Quote Mishra's Dragon wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Min Assault is going to be getting a racial bonus to the effects of damage mods. +25% at level 5, meaning that every percentage higher you push the mods themselves expands the value of that specific medium frame over all other medium frames. At some level it becomes "the" medium frame to run and that's not where we want to be. I can't comment on what that threshold is, no one can clearly yet because the sheer volume of changes in 1.8 dashes the context on the rocks of uncertainty. Which brings me back to my common refrain, CCP, small granulated changes more often are better practice than huge pendulum swings every few months. ~Cross Just where in hell does it say anything about Min Assaults getting a boost on damage mods? Cuz I don't see it anywhere on the official DEV post... Hell, here's the ******* link, I'd like you to point it out to me. DEV Link There was a post with a data dump from SiSi, so you can consider the info a bit more preliminary than the sticky post from the Devs. "All numbers subject to change, blah blah" but it was the data seeded to the test server. In any event that was the Min Assault bonus at the time, I believe it was first linked by Aeon Amadi if you want to get updated details. That being said I don't know the comparative time tables of the SiSi dump and the EDIT from CCP Logibro in post #2 which may mean that CCP took the feedback about the planned Min Assault bonus and thus changed it (wish they'd do the same about the Logi role bonus and racial support skills, but that's getting off topic). In conclusion, my information may now be outdated, if so good catch, if not I'm sure we'll see soon enough ~Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System